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Who Is A Bad Guy In China?
Amazing blog Life Behind The Wall recently posted about face in two posts: Society pressure puts stress on marriages and Exactly how important is face in China. Shortly said, if you have face people think highly of you and you have a good reputation. Chinese are afraid to lose face because that would affect what other people think about them.
One of my friends, a Chinese girl, recently said that her parents wouldn’t let her to marry a bad guy. But who is bad in China? Here it means that the guy doesn’t have education, job or money. Well, usually you should have all of them. If someone asks me what kind of person is bad I think of someone who doesn’t care anyone else but him/her and doesn’t treat other people well. A bad person can be evil or mean. But in China it means poor.
My boyfriend is not from a wealthy family. He haven’t graduated from university, not even from high school. He doesn’t speak English or any other foreign language. He has a job, but not that kind of job you can brag about. More than two of my Chinese friends have told me that I could do better, meaning I should break up with him.
No one seems to be interested that my boyfriend can cook delicious food. Or that after a long day at work he went to a furniture store and bought me a desk so I can study. Maybe I could also add that he never gets tired to tell me how much he cares about me. Doesn’t Chinese people value these skills and features?
So how does this whole face affect to my boyfriend? He wants to be his best, well even better, when he goes to visit his hometown. He is shy meeting with people who have a better education/job/anything than him. He really wants to do business and make a lot of money so he can buy a car and later a house.
Usually I feel like I don’t want anything to do with this whole face thing, but no I can’t forget it. I have to remember to watch out so I don’t accidentally make my boyfriend lose face. Fortunately just by being with me he seems to have gained some face.
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在这个文凭贬值、物价上涨的年代，有钱人炒一炒楼比普通人努力工作十年赚得还多。每个人都变得或多或少的浮躁、投机起来，只会看到自己的物质需求，但内心究竟有什么精神需求，真的又有多少人知道，知道后又能为之坚持的呢？
现在的年轻人不是没有察觉到物质主义和好面子文化的可恶之处，只是自身缺乏独立的能力，面对外界的压力（父母的和社会的），由原来的厌恶，逐渐转变成接受，甚至赞同。当然，也有些人是一开始就喜欢这些东西的。。。。。[Reply]
Sara Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:12 amBen, Thanks for commenting but I really need a dictionary to understand your comment. My Chinese isn’t quite there yet.
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http://mybeijingsurvivaldiary.wordpress.com
Haha I love your comment about needing a dictionary. Simple and honest. You’re right about what should be valued. My boyfriend is from the countryside, but is one of the most honest, hard-working, thoughtful guys I’ve ever met. Problem here is that China’s got a long history, and some things/thinking will take time to change…
Michelle recently posted..China’s New Year not Chinese New Year[Reply]
Sara Reply:
January 9th, 2011 at 10:20 pmMichelle, thank you for commenting! Your boyfriend sounds like a very good guy. You are right that Chinese way of thinking have it’s roots so deeply in history, that it will take time to change and even then I think maybe some aspect of the culture will never change. At least I hope Chinese people would always remember the value of a family. I think sometimes in the Western world people lose contact with their relatives and are almost strangers to each other.
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Finlanren Reply:
January 13th, 2011 at 7:06 amYup, I was happy about the old-fashioned values in China, because it made me feel that people were not so uncaring as in the Western world these days
Finlanren recently posted..Front page- Why I Like China -[Reply]
Sara Reply:
January 14th, 2011 at 12:46 amI think that the caring only concerns family members and the caring is very different from Western world. But to people they don’t know, Chinese people can be very rude.
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willo Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 4:11 am浮躁的拜金主义并不属于中国的传统观念。因为众所周知的原因，在几十年前，中国的传统观念被人为地割断了，现在的中国人正在重建自己的信仰，但仍未成功。所以在这信仰缺失的年代，拜金主义成了我们的“信仰”，不过幸好只是暂时的……
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Congrats, you’ve got a traditional and simple Chinese boyfriend, I think our modern society is lack of this stuff, many people tend to think too much, which leads themselves to a maze, and never find the way out. Basically, love is actually a very simple thing, if two parties have feeling on each other, then they can work out regardless what other things are. After reading your article, I am truly moved, what I like about your blog is you really return to human nature.
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Sara Reply:
January 22nd, 2011 at 10:50 pmThank you Zacky for your kind words. I am so happy to get to know a person that isn’t criticising my choise, but instead understands me. Thank you.
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Zacky Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 7:49 pmhttp://www.tudou.com/programs/view/gcJ5UJX3_UI/
I found a video on tudou also talking about an incredible AMWF relationship, which is extremely similar to your situation. I almost cried when I finished watching this, that’s what true love is!!!
It’s in Chinese version with subtitles, hopefully, you can understand that as well as improve your Chinese :)[Reply]
Sara Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 9:13 amThank you for sharing this Zacky, I will soon take a look!
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This is so out of my experience that it´s difficult to remember that we are talking about persons, feelings, life and love… I mean, wow!
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Sara Reply:
January 25th, 2011 at 1:00 amI know Chi. Chinese people seem to make love decision with their head, when Western people, at least me, do them with their hearth. I’m not saying which is better, but it sure is different.
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Meet more people here,you’ll find out why some people are so material. History is not the only reason. There are other kind of Chinese people living here,like myself. I don’t judge people–no one is perfect. As long as you feel alright, don’t mind what others say,’cuase you have one life to live.
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Sara Reply:
February 28th, 2011 at 1:22 amI know that it’s easy for me to speak about being too materialistic because I don’t have to worry so much about getting money for living. I’m a student and my government helps me. Recently I’ve thought about more those migrant and poor people in China and can understand why it’s important to get a rich husband for example. But I don’t like people criticising my choices or my relationship. It’s easier for me to forget what people are saying because I didn’t grow up with the face concept. But still I’m being reminded of it way too often when people tell me directly how I should live my life. But that’s a good thing to remember what you said and don’t mind too much about what others are thinking. Thank you for commenting!
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i was just wondering, how did you get around to talking to your bf for the first time you’ve first met, considering what you said that he doesn’t speak english at all.. or does he now?
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Sara Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 7:10 amHe still doesn’t speak any English, but our communication is much better now than about a year ago when we met. First I was always asking shenme, shenme (what, what) because I couldn’t understand him. Also speaking was quite slow and hard. But he was patient and explained things to me over and over again, using really simple language. Now I can understand pretty much everything he’s saying, sure he still doesn’t use too complicated language. He has also developed a skill to understand me. People think this a lot because outside we don’t speak so much. It gets a lot of attention when I speak with him in Chinese and always it’s too much attention. But at home we are talking a lot about different kind of things. A lot about our future plans.
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C Reply:
March 21st, 2011 at 3:21 pmYou’re brave to take a leap of faith! will he ever try to learn english in future?
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Sara Reply:
April 9th, 2011 at 9:11 amI think he will and if we move to Finland at some point he has to learn both English and Finnish. Sure I should be teaching him right now too, but I prefer being a girlfriend than a teacher. Job opportunities are much better for people that know languages.
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http://ilovemessages.blogspot.com/
Seems like you are madly in love with your BF :P
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Poikaystäväsi vaikuttaa aivan ihanalta ihmiseltä ja vilpittömältä. Mitä olen ymmärtänyt omalta poikaystävältäni (hän on kotoisin Shanghaista) niin varallisuus ja perheen painostus vaikuttaa seurustelusuhteseen ja sitä kautta myöskin avioliittoon. Oma poikaystäväni on kanssa puhunut, että hän haluaisi ostaa meille yhteisen talon ja kaikki mitä mainitsit omassa tekstissä
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Sara Reply:
June 8th, 2011 at 5:50 amKiitos Tiina! Todella kiva kuulla toisesta suomalaisesta tytöstä, jolla on kiinalainen poikaystävä. Onko oma miekkosesi asunut pitkään Suomessa? Vai asutteko kenties ulkomailla? Olen huomannut aivan saman, että perheellä on erittäin suuri sana siihen, että kenen kanssa heidän lapsensa seurustelevat ja varsinkin menevät naimisiin. Hyvin harva tekee vanhempiensa tahtoa vastaan ja siksi itsellenikin oli tärkeää saada pian oman poikaystäväni vanhempien hyväksyntä. Tiedän kokemuksesta, että vanhempien ei on oikeasti ei.
Olisi kiva kuulla enemmän teistä, että miten tapasitte yms. jos et koe sitä liian tungettelevana :)
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Tiina Reply:
June 8th, 2011 at 6:51 amHän on asunut suomessa kohta kuusi vuotta, mutta silti keskustelemme englanniksi. Asumme kumpikin Helsingissä ja ainakin vielä omisssa paikoisss. Olemme kyllä aikeissa muuttaa yhteen tän vuoden aikana.
En pidä mitenkään tungeilettavana. Eli tapasin nykyisen poikaystäväni Kiinalaisessa uudessa vuoden juhlissa helmikuussa. Sinäisenä v-loppuna kävimme kahvilla ja hän oli ostanut minulle belgialaista suklaata ja maksoi koko illan. Sitten yhtenä päivänä aloimme olemaan yhdessä.
Olemme menossa ensi vuonna Shanghaihin näkemään poikaystäväni perhettä ja sukulaisia ensi vuonna talvella. Yritän parhaani tehdä hyvän vaikutuksen hänen perheeseen, koska haluan jatkas elämää hänen kanssa[Reply]
Sara Reply:
June 19th, 2011 at 10:21 pmKiinalainen uuden vuoden juhla onkin varmasti hyva tapa tavata ja tutustua! Shanghain matka kuulostaa hyvalta ja ymmarsinko oikein, etta tapaat hanen sukuaan ensimmaista kertaa? Varmasti tiedatkin, etta Kiinassa perheen tapaaminen on kovin paljon tarkeampaa kuin Suomessa. Minulta kysyttiin heti ensimmaisen tapaamisen jalkeen, etta milloin ovat haat tiedossa! Joten varaudu visaisiin kysymyksiin ;)
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Tiina Reply:
June 8th, 2011 at 6:54 amOlisi kiva kuulla kanssa teistä enemmän. Onko teillä tullu mitään erinäkökulmia kahden erillaisen kulttuurin takia ja muutenkin. Ihanaa löytää toinen suomalainen tyttö jolla on sama suhde kuin minulla
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China has a arid soil for religions(宗教) and most Chinese even take superstition(迷信) equal to religion. Any kind of a divinity which seems adapted to exert a favourable influence in any given direction will be
patronised, just as a man who happens to need a new umbrella goes to some shop where they keep such goods for sale. To inquire into the antecedents of the divinity(神灵) who is thus worshipped, no more occurs to a Chinese than it would occur to an Englishman who wanted the umbrella to satisfy himself as to the origin of umbrellas, and when they first came into general use.
This lack or even devoid of any definite sense of personality is a fatal flaw in the chinese worship of “divinity” and thus could be called superstition.
Unfortunately in China it seems that the role usually played by religion is supplanted by face(面子) which has its definit meaning in a acquiescent way though a little divergence exists among different people according to the regions.But such conformity to “face” is only confined to public and stealthily these so-called “disciples”are inclined (indead glad) to violate the rule of “face”especially when it can benefit from doing so because actually they don’t take the conformity as a responsibility but as a burden.
Typically religion enables us to feel guilty when we did something wrong;on the contrary,face has no such obligation on us and even pampers us in doing wrong stealthily.As a result,the atmosphere of hypocrisy and imorality permeates in China.
In my opinion the thing happening to you is not about face but about natural prejudice coexisting all over the word not uniquely in China if you know the chinese political and customary condition in which no equality conception between people exists and someone is doomed to struggle to get through thieir life. “Each dog has it’s day”,in China it will never happen.
I guess you are a theist,sara and religion makes you absorb morality at every pore-__-.[Reply]
Sara Reply:
July 27th, 2011 at 1:00 amThank you for this information xiaozhoucoldsea. Actually I don’t have any religion and don’t believe in any god. What I do believe is that in a relationship it’s important to have similar ideas and beliefs.
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http://www.johannesburgawnings.co.za/
Chinese women are under the impression that they can train guys to become however they want; be it rich, successful, sexy or loving. They think they are in complete control. It’s an interesting culture they have.
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Sara Reply:
August 4th, 2011 at 7:39 amI think that you can’t change a person. Someone will only change if he or she wants to.
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Cultures value most whatever has been most lacking. For example, in the middle east it’s peace (“May peace be upon you” is the normal greeting). In China, it’s money (and food) (“Ni chi fan le ma?” is a common greeting) and so it’s not too surprising that parents want richer people to marry into the family.
Interestingly, in the west we tend to value love as the highest thing. Sadly, this may be because many people grow up feeling unloved or at least see many others being unloved. Love is seen as something you may easily miss out on if you don’t do things right and find the right person.
The east, however, generally has a much stronger family unit and so love is often there – it’s an expectation. Therefore, it’s pretty low down on the prospective husband/wife requirements list.
In some cultures, liberation (from the birth-death cycle) is the highest thing. The simple act of being born indicates that liberation is lacking!
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Li Reply:
September 11th, 2011 at 7:21 pmMark ,
In the Middle East , they greet with “peace upon u” bcoz they were brought up by Islamic teaching…
Islam=Peace in Arabic…Whether or not that was bcoz of peace was lacking, i cant comment…In China, i can tell u that the most important thing is FAMILY…
Chinese love eating together coz it’s the best time for family members to stick…
After all , the character that form NATION in Chinese is made up of FAMILY…[Reply]
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oh dear, apparently my bf is a bad guy too, haha! no car, no house, according to most of the chinese people I know his salary is not good enough… One day in a bus a stranger told him: “come on, you have a foreign gf, you have to buy a car!”. Funny, cause I was pretty sure that he’s the best bf in this part of the galaxy: inteligent, funny, loving, thoughtful, responsible, honest, faithful, charming… and killing handsome of course ;) I know that while we’ll live in China, he’s gonna feel this terrible pressure, but he also has his fantastic family, friends and me, and he knows that to me he is a treasure.
Thank you for this blog Sara, it really helps me a lot. Hope that we’ll have a chance to meet one day in Guangzhou or when you’ll be in Shenzhen.[Reply]
Sara Reply:
December 20th, 2011 at 1:10 amThank you for leaving a comment Barbara! It really seems like that those qualities you listed doesn’t mean much here in China. Money, job, apartment and family background seem to make or break the deal here. Of course money is important, but it won’t make you happy if you chose to share your life with a wrong man.
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http://www.facebook.com/phenoabdy
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http://www.facebook.com/phenoabdy
after reading and re-reading this blog imm lil bit curious about your relationship wid this lucky chinese bf. not able to say ‘i love you sara’ or ‘miss you darling’ or not able to tell you a short story about his past. this and more things makes every one think about alot.
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Sara Reply:
April 14th, 2012 at 10:03 pmMy Chinese isn’t very good, but it sure is better than that.
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@abdyrahman: I don’t know what you mean by “poor” but surely for the Chinese it has different meaning than in Europe. Before my bf invited me to his house he warned me that his family is poor. Then I saw a huge 3D tv-set on the wall in the 4 bedroom apartment. This is not poverty for me. But in China he is still “poor” cause he doesn’t have a car and a his own house and this is why many chinese girls would not date him. Maybe you don’t know that in bigger chinese cities the prices of the real estate are sometimes 30% or 40% higher from their real value. I don’t know the situation in other cities but in Shenzhen you also have to pay if you park your own car in front of your house. Still, a car and a house are the things one must have in China now. Hard to undersatnd if you don’t live here.
Besides, Sara’s mandarin is good enough to chat with her bf about many things, not only to understand “i love you” or “i miss you”, so I don’t get your point here actually.[Reply]
abdyrahman Reply:
April 14th, 2012 at 6:32 pmdear barbara. iam sorry u misinterperate i was talking about saras bf not yours. i know the situation in china cuz imma living in it and i know how adventorous it is to live here. and that talk about poor i mean the lifestyle and that post of sara analysing whos bad boy and chinese fam about being not liking bad boy. thats it
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John, maybe for you it’s hard to believe, but western and chinese girls are really different from each other. We have different expectations from a relationship and maybe we don’t need a guy with house-car-money, but from my point of view (and I think that many non-asian girls would agree with me) relationship based on house-car-money is not a relationship any more, it’s a deal.
But I can’t say that it makes it all easier for western female/asian male couples. Actually, if i’d only expect my chinese bf to buy a car and a house it would be easier cause in this case he’d need ONLY money. But I don’t want a sponsor, I want a partner, which means that we both have to make a great effort to cope with cultural differences, our habits, bias and such. This sometimes requires more work than buying a car.[Reply]
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Sara Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:11 am
Richard, I couldn’t tolerate a bad personality even it would bring me a lot of money. And I would prefer to be happy on a bike, as I am at the moment. But that quote is a quite good one and it tells what things are valued here in China.
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